Montasser AlDe'emeh: 'Palestinian violence is legitimate but counterproductive'

Montasser Alde’emeh is a doing doctoral research on the roots of armed jihad in the Middle East. Together with Pieter Stockmans  Montasser traveled for MO* to Jordan in spring. Later he visited Jabat Al Nusra combatants in Syria linked with Al Qaeda and then he traveled to Gaza when the third Israeli war against the densely populated Palestinian territory was still in full swing.

He experienced one day of the Gaza war, then the bombs, the automatic guns and the missiles were silent. That enabled the people to speak. Together with Montasser we leaf through the Gaza images on his smart phone.

Dr Tawil (to the extreme right of the picture) is doctor in the Al Shiffa hospital, one of the most important and famous hospitals in Gaza.

Montasser Alde’emeh: According to Dr Tawil the toll of the last war against Gaza was devastating: 2143 dead, among which 581 children, and more than 11.000 wounded. 94 families lost at least 4 members, with one family losing no less than 27 members and another one that lost 18. At least 170 mosques were bombed.

Dr Tawil is a Christian. Do you ever hear someone speak about Christians in Gaza? Never. Nevertheless there are some 1500 Christians and there are three churches, of which two have been bombarded by the Israeli army. Hamas leaves them alone, they have no specific problems.

‘When the mosques are attacked, Muslims can make their call for prayer from our churches’

‘In the Palestinian territories Muslims and Christians live together in respect.  When the mosques are attacked, Muslims can make their call for prayer from our churches’, Dr Tawil says.

Christians do not pay the djizja tax?

Montasser Alde’emeh: Hamas does not impose sharia law in Gaza. That means that they do not levy the djizja tax with Christians and the zakat with the Muslims. It is a complete fraud to compare the Hamas administration with the Islamic State administration in Syria and Iraq.

Nevertheless Hamas imposes a conservative -Islamic- morality in the territory that the movement controls. Can women enter the street without a hijab?

Montasser Alde’emeh: There is no government regulation about that, but it is very well possible that conservative Muslims will summon a woman without a veil. The social pressure will certainly be great to conform to a conservative morality.

The Palestinians always made up a well educated and progressive, rather secular community. How do you explain the conservative islam in Gaza?

Montasser Alde’emeh: That is the result of the work and influence of Hamas. Their view on society is strongly influenced by the Muslim Brotherhood, and they made that clear from the start and even more so since the internal conflict with Fatah after the 2006 elections. After the political take-over Hamas has been effectively able to impose its view.

Hamas is looking for an intermediary road between Islamic orthodoxy and free expression of opinion.

Among other things they have closed down discotheques and blocked pornographic material on the internet. Hamas is looking for an intermediary road between Islamic orthodoxy and free expression of opinion. There are also internal differences inside Hamas.

Some leaders stand criticism even less than others. And so it happens that those who express criticism have to face militias and violence. 

Israeli prime minister Netanyahu says that Hamas and IS are comparable threats. Is there a kernel of truth in his statement?

Montasser Alde’emeh: No, Hamas has always been committed to countering the Salafist jihadist groups in Gaza because they threaten the position of Hamas itself. There have been examples of military actions against Salafist jihadists in Gaza.

At a certain moment the Hamas police even attacked the Ibn Tayyimi mosque. Salafist jihadists from Jund Ansar Allah picked up a quarrel with Hamas because they accused Hamas of not governing according to sharia. They took shelter in the mosque and were killed there in cold blood, their spiritual leader Adel Latif Moussa included.

Naturally there are Salafist jihadists, little groups who swear allegiance to Al Qaeda as well as groups who proclaim themselves as pro Islamic State and Abu Bakr Al Bagdadi. But they are countered manu militari by Hamas.

Montasser Alde’emeh: Everywhere you go in Gaza, you see damaged houses and streets, and everywhere you see children, playing with broken pieces from houses and missiles – who knows if the metal is contaminated. The Gaza children are the victims of the errors the adults have committed. About 400.000 children in Gaza suffer from post traumatic stress. It is really heart rending to see this.

Israels interests supersede the interests of these children but also the Palestinian leaders fail in their mission to give these children a future. They play soccer with Israel about the future, regularly score own goals and still cry “Allahu Akbar”.

Hamas claimed victory after the summer war. But what kind of victory is this when houses, schools and hospitals are in rubble? When there are more than two thousand casualties? When the blockade is still in effect? When electricity breaks down more frequently than it functions? When there are still more than eight thousand Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails? When the corruption of one party becomes the success of the other one? The Palestinian “victory” attempts to deny reality, and that reality is that we are fighting a real military superpower. On the military level we can never make it.

Which mistakes are made by Palestinian leaders?

The sporadic violence from the Palestinian side offers Israel the perfect alibi to humiliate us, to target and to kill us.

Montasser Alde’emeh: They fail in the first place by being divided. Israel has at least tolerated the rise of Hamas, because they realized very well that a divided Palestinian people would be a weaker adversary. Even within the present unity government the two parties claim full power. The result of this division is that Israel goes on with the construction of new settlements on the West Bank with impunity. And every two years the Palestinians are humiliated by a crushing military force. Moreover the sporadic violence from the Palestinian side offers Israel the perfect alibi to humiliate us, to target and to kill us.

And the alternative is?

Montasser Alde’emeh: Unity, in the first place. And to start with peaceful resistance against the occupation based in a unified people. The real victory for me is every Palestinian child attenting school. Victory consists of people living the ordinary life they aspire to: education, jobs, electricity, drinking water,… A victory should be measured not according to the power of this or that party, but according to the interests of the Palestinian children.

The Palestinians have the right to resist the occupation, even with the use of weapons. But is violence an effective strategy or is the use of violence counter productive?

Montasser Alde’emeh: Counter productive, no doubt. According to the international conventions we are in a rightful position if we take up arms and according to Islam all conditions for armed resistance have been met. It is perfectly understandable that people freak out, living year in year uot in the Gaza open air prison or on the West Bank, with more than six hundred check-points and the many settlements.

The violence does not liberate us, it turns against us. It costs hundreds of lives, reduces housing and economy to rubble.

But we should not forget that we face a world power which is unconditionally supported - also on the military level - by the USA. The violence does not liberate us, it turns against us. It costs hundreds of lives, reduces housing and economy to rubble.

Why do the Palestinians boast their macho ego with do-it-yourself missiles? We do not attain anything. We should dissociate from this perpetrators’ role and cultivate the victims’ role.

Palestinians are after all the victims of the Israeli occupation, of the internal power struggle and the neglect and instrumentalization by the Arab countries. We have to show the world that we are suffering already 66 years. Look at the settlements. Look at the violations of the human rights of the Palestinians by Israel.

You say that the Palestinians are also victims of the Arab countries.

Montasser Alde’emeh: I was told in Gaza that the wounded who were transported to Israeli hospitals - what happened in war time - received good care and returned healthier, while those who were transported into Egypt simply did not come back.

Gaza is closed down at the two borders: the Israeli and the Egyptian one. Qatar writes a check for the reconstruction, every two years, but does not lift a foot to oppose the destruction.

Since the rise of IS some Arab countries are prepared to intervene in a military way and to bomb the militants in Syrian and Iraq. Where were those brothers when Gaza was attacked for the third time in six years? In Lebanon Palestinian refugees are not even allowed to exercise a lot of professions or to own houses.

Where were those brothers when Gaza was attacked for the third time in six years?

Bashar Al-Assad used the Palestinians for years but the moment Gaza refuses to become part of the Syrian conflict, they are dumped. Moreover the “Arab allies” oppress their own populations.

Is there broad support in Gaza for such an alternative approach?

Montasser Alde’emeh: Views vary as in every population. There are people who recognize themselves in president’s Abbas readiness for negotiations, and there are some who defend Hamas’ strategy to the utmost. And there are those who drawing try to develop new approaches, starting from the strengths of civil society. I hope that this movement succeeds in mobilising the whole population behind a new approach, which would probably garner a lot more support from the rest of the world for their rights and freedom.

And for their dignity.

Montasser Alde’emeh: Indeed, that is the driving force behind the struggle and the resistance: the need of respect, honour and dignity. And a Palestinian state.

Montasser Alde’emeh: Mister Joudi was dining at home when an Israeli missile hit the building. He lost at once his wife and four children. Another child lost a leg. Has he chosen this war? No. Why does he have to atone for it in such a cruel way? Let us be honest: it is not the ones who chose war who pay the price for it.

For that reason I think decisions about the use of violence have to be taken in a much more democratic way so that ordinary people, who will be hit hardest, also have a say when decisions are made. 

The starting point has to be: the enemy is at the same time unjust AND much more powerful. That has to determine our own tactics and strategy, not the desire for heroic acts or speeches.

Israel is at the same time unjust AND much more powerful. That has to determine our own tactics and strategy, not the desire for heroic acts or speeches.

How does this man cope with his loss? Does he want vengeance and more violence, or does he want peace?

Montasser Alde’emeh: When I talked with him, he just started to cry. What can a man do when his wife and four children disappear in the flash of a lightning? Obviously he feels powerless, certainly when he sees that the world remains seemingly unmoved at the killing and destruction in Gaza.

Will Netanyahu be brought before the International Criminal Court in The Hague? Or does that ICC only apply to some Serbians and a handful of African leaders? What the Gaza people and the Palestinians need is justice.

That is also in the interest of the rest of the world. Because the greater the injustice, the greater the chance of insurrection and conflict. All world empires have disappeared, but the present-day rulers govern as if they have eternal lives.

The Israeli government jeopardizes the future of its own citizens by its current policies. This is obvious from the rise of the radical Islamic movements and groups such as Jabhat-al-Nusra and IS. The generations of refugees who have to survive in Jordan without any perspective now produce the most lethal threat to the state of Israel.

Montasser Alde’emeh: I grew up in a refugee camp in Jordan. That was not quita an environment rich in opportunities, but people in Jordan and Syria can always get out. In Gaza they are locked in. When they have to escape the bombardments, they can only turn to places where the next bombs will be dropped.

Still the first thing people want to do at the end of the war is to go back home. You can ask what kind of home after the bombardments. And when you have watched the destruction with your own eyes, you will understand the extremist and violent reactions better.

Is there a sense that the armed struggle of the extremists will provide the solution the PLO’s diplomatic mission did not?

Montasser Alde’emeh: Not a single adult is in favour of the massive violence that is committed by e.g. IS. But after 66 years of humiliation and neglect even Satan would be followed if he would promise an end to the injustice.

In Gaza it is estimated there are about 300 to 500 active sympathizers of the international jihadist movement. And there are some joining the fighters in Syria, together with at least 1500 Jordanian volunteer combatants, in the hope to liberate Palestine from there.

The whole idea of a caliphate will continue to appeal to young people who feel uprooted and blocked.

That same phenomenon is taking place everywhere in the Arab world. Also from Egypt a number of people leave for Syria out of despair and frustration about the developments in their own country. 90 percent of the IS combatants are foreigners. The whole idea of a caliphate will continue to appeal to young people who feel uprooted and blocked as long as the injustice in the Arab world is not tackled. The caliphate appears then as the ultimate answer to imperialist injustice.

The West organizes invasions into Islamic countries, throws phosphor bombs, supports Israel unconditionally, arms the Mujahedin against the Soviets and Saddam Hussein against Iran, but in the end, the same West hopes to be seen as an objective defender of human rights and democracy and expects that Washington, New York and the European capitals remain quiet. They slaughter a sheep but do not want any blood on their clothes.

The caliphate promises a radical alternative for the imperialist world order but what is so attractive about the practice of the Islamic State?

Montasser Alde’emeh: Do not forget that the idea of the restoration of the caliphate is as old as the fall of the last Ottoman caliphate. The Muslim Brothers in Egypt, the Salafists in the Arab Peninsula, the Khilafat movement in South Asia: they all formulated and organized a broad desire for the reunification of all Muslims under one faithful leader. A lot of people feel called to be that leader, the new Salah-ed-Din.

This desire plays a central role in the imagination, you notice it in the movies made in the Middle East, which can often be traced back to that glorious period of the honest leaders and the unity under the faithful.

The lack of perspective prevails for decades and was confirmed in an extreme manner the last years by the way in which the Arab spring was smothered.

But what explains the violence in the actual endeavours to restore the caliphate?To answer to this question, look at the lack of perspective that prevails for decades and which was confirmed in an extreme manner the last years by the way in which the Arab spring was smothered.

The message of the Egyptian and the Palestinian experience is that even democratic elections are not sufficient to realize change. At least: if the democratic majority turns to the direction of a political Islam, then the West does not recognize the results or they support a military coup against the elected government. The deeper the injustice cuts, the greater the chance of an exaggerated reaction. When a man loses his family through a bombardment, you should be surprised that he takes revenge, should you? Unfortunately revenge is taken too frequently on innocent citizens. People are blinded by the pain and become themselves violent and unjust. As Nazism was born from the feeling that Germany was humiliated in Versailles after the Great War.

Montasser Alde’emeh: The first thing people wanted to do the day after the war was to jump into the sea. During the war everybody who moved on the beach or in the water, was fired on. The sea is freedom for Gaza, the only open perspective on the world and an existence without barbed wire.

How is daily life in Gaza really?

Montasser Alde’emeh: Mundane. Even during the war, men went to the fitness hall. It is all a matter of mental health. People remain hungry, dream, live and love. War or no war, bread has to be bought and food has to be cooked. In the meantime the war seeps inexorably into daily life. (He shows a video of playing children.) The children perform life as it is and consequently all carry toy guns and call for freedom.